and the president of the united states, until recently, wouldn't say anything on their behalf. i'll tell you what we need, we need leadership first. american leadership. second, we need to have a no-fly zone. but most importantly now, we should be giving them arms with which to defend themselves over -- >> bill: you would arm the rebels, no-fly zone like in libya. and get involved on the side of the anti-assad forces. >> yes. everything that we said would happen, if we got involved, is happening because we're not involved. al-qaeda is pouring in to the place. the massacres have increased. iranians and russians have increased their supplies and support of al assad and the tensions in the region are going up. look at syria, turkey, jordan, syria -- >> bill: sure. it's cauldron over there. >> absolutely. >> bill: i wanted to get your opinion on what you would have done had you been president. finally, were you surprised that president obama was so flat in the debate? he wasn't the guy that debated you four years ago. >> well, i think that there is a fundamental change here, bill,